patrick barry, the defense and security analyst at the university of bath and the u. k. is also a form in nato and list and who joins us from san francisco today. patrick, i want to your perspective on just how significant this is. essentially, nato is talking about how much commitment they're going to provide to ukraine for how long and under what form on my right. and thinking that these kinds of conversations at the nato level could essentially determine the outcome of this for a good evening, sir. oh, uh, yeah, well, it will certainly contribute to the outcome of the war one way or another if they can make an agreement or not. i think charles has pointed by trying to tie in a certain governments that now into structured support over a lengthy period of time is certainly one of the things here because the trying to reduce the risk of, of there being a change in administration. and the course, you know, the delay in particular, the us $60000000000.00 which is being held up in congress, the delay and the effective about delay to the ukrainians by using this winter and i